Are Men Intimidated By Independent & Successful Women?
April 7th, 2008Are you a well-educated, intelligent, independent, and successful woman… who is still single? You're not alone (no pun intended).
More and more women are getting advanced degrees and pursuing their careers. And staying single. Sometimes voluntarily, sometimes involuntarily.
Wait, involuntarily? Why is that? What's preventing them from being in a relationship?
Before we answer that, it's important to realize that many women are staying single because they want to. They're focused on their careers, are very ambitious, and are pursuing their dreams. Their hectic schedules don't offer much time for the hassles and turmoil of dating.
Many do ultimately want a relationship, but are independent enough—financially & emotionally—to postpone it until the right man comes along. They hold high standards for their men, just as they hold high standards for themselves. Although these standards weed out most of the men they meet, they don't mind; they're willing & able to wait.
But what if you don't want to wait anymore? Maybe you're ready to settle down now. Maybe you're lonely and want companionship. Maybe your biological clock is not just ticking anymore, it's pounding. What to do, what to do…
The easy answer is: go out and find a man. Yea, sure, and while you're at it, pick up an extra million dollars on the way home too.
Why do well-educated, intelligent, independent, and successful women find it so hard to find a man? Is it because men are intimidated by them?
To answer that, let's look at three real-life anecdotes from women I know.
Women with MBAs
Within a local, prestigious MBA program, two girls noticed that most of their male classmates going for girls without advanced degrees. Instead of dating within their sizable pool of beautiful, sexy, and intelligent MBA classmates, the guys were dating, and even marrying, girls outside of their program. "Guys with MBAs just don't want girls with MBAs," one lamented. They seemed to prefer less educated women.
Women in Triathlons
After meeting a great guy, one girl was shocked to find him suddenly pulling away after a few successful dates. This was shortly after talking about her rigorous triathlon training program. He cited her busy schedule (which included work and triathlon training) as the reason to slow things down. She sensed it was more about her triathlon than her work, though he denied it. However, he would occasionally make comments about how much stronger she was than him.
Women as Doctors vs Teachers
A group of female doctors often went clubbing together. Each time, they'd try an experiment. On some nights, they'd tell guys that they were doctors. On other nights, they'd tell guys that they were teachers, librarians, and interior decorators. Guess which profession the guys gravitated towards? "It's funny; every time we told them the truth, they'd disappear. But if we told them we were teachers or something, they'd flock around us and try to get our numbers."
Sure sounds like men are intimidated to independent and successful women to me. We can even add physically fit to that list. What's an independent and successful woman to do?
A Solution and a Silver Lining
Kris Frieswick of MSN Money has a solution. In her article "Too successful for a mate?" she notes that many successful women hold unrealistic expectations for a relationship. They look for a partner who is just as successful as they are, if not moreso. She suggests adjusting those expectations and seeking only those that are relevant to a happy relationship.
"I abandoned the expectation of many 'must-have' items in my years of dating before I met my husband." Frieswick writes. "It's not that I couldn't find a man who possessed the right qualities, but it turned out they were irrelevant to a happy relationship. Was it crucial that my husband have a master's degree? No. Would it be a deal- breaker if he didn't love mountain biking as much as I do? No."
Even Kathleen Gerson, a Professor of Sociology at New York University, agrees. "Women have increasingly high standards for who that partner might be, and because they have the ability to support themselves, they can afford to wait. They can apply those high standards."
Aside from adjusting expectations, there are really many men who are not intimidated by independent and successful women. (Yup, right here on Earth!) A good buddy of mine actually seeks out highly intelligent women. The girls he dates typically have advanced degrees, are highly ambitious, and are successful in their careers.
Another good buddy won't settle for anything less. "If I can't have an intelligent conversation with her about things like economics or world culture," he says, "then I can't go out with her."
As for me, I'm attracted to well-educated, intelligent, independent, and successful women too. I've dated girls who are eleven donuts short a box of dozen and those relationships never lasted too long. I can't date a woman I don't respect, and I have a lot of respect for intelligence, autonomy, and ambition. Plus, big brains are sexy. Mmm mmm mmm.
I realize that my friends and I are not the norm, however. But men with this mindset do exist. The majority of them are successful too. The challenge isn't one of simply adjusting standards, in my opinion (though it's helpful for everyone to at least have realistic standards). It's also of trying to find one who's compatible with you.
It's not an impossible challenge either. As Gerson happily notes:
"The more highly educated a woman is, the more likely she is to ultimately marry. But it's also true that she's more likely to postpone marriage until she gains a foothold in the workplace and feels more secure about her working life until she's a chance to figure out who she is, so she knows what kind of partner she wants.
"And ultimately, women who do postpone, especially if they're highly educated, are more likely to find a partner who is right for them. [It is] more likely for that marriage to work, to last, and to create that balance between personal autonomy and commitment that they desire."
April 8th, 2008 at 10:42 am
[...] lose heart. Just as there are men who are intimidated, there are men who prefer independent & educated women. It may be a challenge to find them, but unlike leprechauns, they really do exist. How do you find [...]
April 27th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Great blog post! Some of those stories sound very familiar. I never tell guys I have an MBA because that always sends them running for the hills.
April 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
I'm also a doctor also. My friends and I have noticed the same thing. The guys that disappear from us aren't the kind of guys we want anyways, so good riddance to them I say!!
April 29th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
thsoe guys exist?! WHERE?!?!
April 29th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Love this post. You know I endearingly refer to my MBA as a chastity belt. Men say they want to date smart women, I mention the MBA and then skid marks…:)
May 8th, 2008 at 2:31 am
The men probably run because they know you're a workaholic. If you're never home because you're working all the time, why bother?
Why do you have to mention your degree to the fella anyway? I knew a guy at work who used to great people this way… "Bob x, MIT PHD". F'in a-hole.
Men *do* want to date smart women. Stop working all the time! There's more to life than working "for the Man". If you aren't going to make time for a guy then stop complaining.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Women that are doctors, bankers, or have MBAs are pretty dull anyway. They are so absorbed with themselves and judge everyone around them who aren't either. This is truly why men run for the hills when they hear this.
Women with that kind of dedication and insistence typically have an 'axe to grind' against the infrastructure that prohibited them earlier in their careers 'because they are women' anyway, so they clump most men into the 'evil machismo male chauvinism' category by default, and expect men to prove how worthy they are and cater to their every whim.
Women who are exceptionally intelligent, but can let loose and be less demanding are more fun anyway. After all, shouldn't relationships be about enjoying each other's presence and doing things together be more important than treating each other like a business relationship?
But perhaps I'm romanticizing with an ideal too much.
May 16th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Face it, women love love men who are smarter and more powerful than they are. This is why no matter how successful they become, they will never feel secure until the man is more successful then she. Also, greater riches and power are no gaurantee for attracting a mate if you're a male. I can name you a pretty list of rich males who are still jacking off to the Internet because they can't find a girl. So if even rich men are having trouble keeping (or finding, for that matter) a girl, then how the fuck is a "weaker" man going to interest a more powerful female enough for the long haul?
Unless he's a masochist who loves the contempt a girl can throw at him and, assuming she's the domineering type, he won't last with her. And that's all there is to it. Fatalistic? No, realistic.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Yes, it is true that women love men who are intelligent, well-spoken, and successful. Now you tell me, is this asking too much?
As a well-educated and independent woman, I find that others like myself tend to be stereotyped as being "workaholics", "feminists", "snobs", or straight up "bitches." Although some can fit into one, most, or all of these stereotypes, most women aren't any of the above. I can speak for myself and my girlfriends when I say that we are well-rounded girls who work hard, and play even harder.
When looking for a partner, we are not asking for a man to have a degree to match our own, but we are looking for someone who is confident enough to stand by our side. We enjoy spending time with those who speak intelligently and are able to participate in playful banter. Aren't guys looking for the same thing in a girlfriend or wife?
I admit that most of the women I know want a man who measures up to her own success. However, everyone woman has her own definition of a "successful man." For some women, it may mean having a professional degree, and for others it may involve a man's annual income. And then there are some women who aren't as concerned about the letters behind the guy's name, but instead look at the man's character and qualities. (Educated women are smart enough to know that there are successful men out there without graduate degrees).
For those successful, independent women who are single and dating, I can attest to you that there are single, intelligent, successful men out there. They do exist. I was lucky enough to find one. Unfortunately, these guys are few and far between.
And to all of you single men out there, don't be afraid to ask out a well-educated, independent, successful woman. If you present yourself with confidence, and can back it up, you may end up with a great girl (who just so happens to have a professional degree).
May 20th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
There's another problem too… Divorce.
It's a raw deal for dads. I've seen data suggesting that over two thirds of divorces are initiated by women. It's hard to commit to a marriage when you see those odds.
Dads don't get to see their children much. I imagine young men growing up without dad around will develop a certain attitude towards marriage and divorce. I'm sure many will decide to marry anyway but you gotta think a number of them saw what happened to pop and decided marriage wasn't something worth pursuing.
So… without a family to worry about, I imagine a number of young men don't really feel compelled to excel in the work force. I'm afraid there may be fewer successful men out there for the hard working women to date and possibly marry.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
There are many reasons why women are more likely to initiate divorce now. In the past, the husband was the sole income generator and women couldn't leave a poor marriage simply because they did not have the financial means to.
But now that more women are financially secure, they CAn initiate a divorce from a bad marriage. That is a large part of why you see this kind of trend.
I am not saying divorce is alwys the best solution however. I agree that it is hard to commit to a marriage when divorces are so common. It is very disheartening.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Is it possible that women do not know what they want, and men are more focused and know exactly what they want?
Seems to me that women are rarely pleased, and are always seeking 'more'. I don't have any statistics, so I'm obviously shooting at the hip.
But, if women are so centered around emotions, and men are logically centered, then is it not true that there is a formula to please men, but women require something much more esoteric?
May 21st, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Women having options (including divorce) is better than being trapped in an awful marriage. The problem is men know they will most likely lose the children. That sucks.
I think if the courts were a little more even handed with the division of the spoils (for lack of a better phrase) men might not be so reluctant to walk up the aisle.
Fortunately, many men are dopes (myself included) and marry anyway despite the fact that there's a 50/50 chance the marriage will fail. In my case, I *really* wanted a family. So far so good, but I know it could end anytime.
My brother in law just lost his family. He's supposed to be able to see his kids four days each month but it's been over a year and his ex-wife won't let him see the kids anymore. Courts won't enforce visitation. He's pretty much out of luck unless he wants to go back to court and spend a ton of money trying to get to see the kids a few times a year. Real bummer.
September 1st, 2008 at 9:54 am
Enough!
It seems that we are straying away from the point here. The point here is "Are Men Intimidated By Independent & Successful Women?" Now it seems that you guys are discussing whether women want rich or just a man who's gonna make them happy - which is not what the topic is all about.
Well, to answer the question Are Men Intimidated By Independent & Successful Women?
YES, men are intimidated by successful independent woman. Howsoever, NOT ALL MEN ARE INTIMIDATED but some are.
From my point of view, here is why;
Women (not all) who are successful and independent tend to be very bully or controlling when it comes to a treating her man, knowing that she owns everything in the house (if the fella is staying with her). UNFORTUNATELY, all those SUCCESSES, INDEPENDENCIES women have CAN’T BUY them love. This forces a man to be submissive on whatever this gal is doing – which, being submissive on being a man makes you MAN feel less valuable or not a man enough.
Now to avoid that kind of feeling, men prefers to withdraw in a relationship (if already in this kinda relationship) and, if not in this relationship, not even to bother approaching successful woman with the mind that ALL successful women are like that while THEY ARE NOT.
A women then tend will wonder where she has gone wrong to lose her man, not knowing why the first guy have left her because she has everything (Diplomas, Master degrees and money). Pitifully, there aren’t men who’d have guts to let her know that he doesn’t like the way he is being treated. Instead he will just run away and make some excuses.
A women then will ended up dating a second best guy she comes across with, and tend out that this new guy is just after her money. Now this makes women blame every guy in this world saying “There are no good men out there” because the first guy ran away, and this one as well.
It would be better for a man to let her know that she (this successful woman) is bullying and bossy so that she is aware of her weaknesses when it comes to men – buy hey, I don’t think there’s any man in this world who can tell such a lady that “I am being threatened by your success because I have to be more submissive whether you are doing or telling me rubbish – which is what I can’t tolerate on being a man”. Unfortunately you successful ladies, it is hard for man to communicate this out. So you will just have to find the solution to this by yourself.
But remember that there are good men out there who are not threatened by your successes buy the challenge for you is to find them.
A practical example:
My friend was also in this kind of situation where this lady was soooo bossy and controlling but successful and independent. One day, this gal’s parents came to visit with their kids. Now the kids were playing football in the house and they ended up breaking a TV while playing. When this guy tries to talk to the kids about the damage they have done, the lady’s mother shouted at this guy saying that “It’s not a big deal that the kid have broken it because you didn’t buy it yourself anyway but our daughter bought it and she will buy another one”. How do you think this guy felt? Now being in a situation where you will ended up being reminded of that everything in the house (for example) makes you man feel less.
Even if you go somewhere with this lady’s car, you know that her friends (or her parents) may gossip that “as you see him in that car, it’s not his but out daughter’s” – which is what we can’t stand as MEN.
October 24th, 2008 at 2:39 am
We're not straying from the point. If a women is successful with high standards, even if a guy marries her chances are about 50/50 it's going to end in divorce.
Why bother?
November 18th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Men are not afraid of successful women. They are afraid of abuse toward them by society, including women who may perceive men to be weak in some way. The nineteenth century belief Males should be strong allows aggression toward Males who appear weak in some way. Society provides love, honor, respect, support, etc. (the essentials for feelings of self-worth only on the condition of sufficient achievement, money, power, status, and image. Those Males who do not have sufficiency are not only given less love, honor, and respect, they are allowed upon them more aggression by society. This makes men very competitive for they feel they must achieve in order to have those things. Added the nineteenth century belief Males should be strong that allow much more aggression toward Males and also the denial from day one of mental, emotional, social support from day one (for fear of coddling the Male) and you have Males falling behind Females mentally, emotionally, socially, academically, and economically.
Women, due to the nineteenth century belief woman should be protected are given love, honor, and respect simply for being women. The nineteen century belief they should be protected also allows for much mental, emotional, social support, to only "appear to mature faster than Males". By differential treatment Females are surging ahead. In addition that very overprotection by society allows women to give verbal, silent abuse, and hollow kindness or patronization with impunity. The combination of allowed aggressions upon Males who appear weak in some way, lack of support for Males, more than adequate support for Females, and the protected freedoms of various allowed verbal and nonverbal abuse by women makes a Male who appears weak in some way quite vulnerable to more abuse from successful women and more also from society.